Comments on: OOXML — The Apple Headache http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/ Thoughts from up-north Thu, 28 Aug 2008 01:49:31 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3.1 By: Martin http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6724 Martin Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:09:45 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6724 Sorry for my late answer. The files are available right here: http://filer.bekkelund.net/dokumenter/neooffice.docx http://filer.bekkelund.net/dokumenter/neooffice.odt http://filer.bekkelund.net/dokumenter/neooffice.xlsx http://filer.bekkelund.net/dokumenter/neooffice2.xlsx And for what ODF concerns, it is not ODF that is up for ISO certification. ODF is already ISO certified and selected as the mandatory document standard for the public sector in Norway. Therefore, discussing ODF is uninteresting in this setting. Sorry for my late answer.

The files are available right here:

http://filer.bekkelund.net/dokumenter/neooffice.docx
http://filer.bekkelund.net/dokumenter/neooffice.odt
http://filer.bekkelund.net/dokumenter/neooffice.xlsx
http://filer.bekkelund.net/dokumenter/neooffice2.xlsx

And for what ODF concerns, it is not ODF that is up for ISO certification. ODF is already ISO certified and selected as the mandatory document standard for the public sector in Norway. Therefore, discussing ODF is uninteresting in this setting.

]]> By: hAl http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6717 hAl Sat, 16 Feb 2008 07:21:55 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6717 Could you enlighten us what kind of format your embedded picture file actually is ? Because it seems that a sample file I made that is very similar to your file is picked up fine by the iPhone of my friend. Or better even give your readers a downloadable link to your sample files. Could you enlighten us what kind of format your embedded picture file actually is ?
Because it seems that a sample file I made that is very similar to your file is picked up fine by the iPhone of my friend.
Or better even give your readers a downloadable link to your sample files.

]]> By: orcmid http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6716 orcmid Fri, 15 Feb 2008 18:47:27 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6716 "First of all, I will like to point out that the format of documents produced by Microsoft Office 2007 is not OOXML (Ecma 376). Microsoft Office 2007 documents contains, according to my sources, many elements not specified in Ecma 376, such as binary code, macros, OLE objects, ActiveX, DRM and SharePoint metadata. Even the paper handling does not conform with Ecma 376." I think you have to be careful about these statements. Both ODF and OOXML allow for use of binary content and for additional/alternative content in some cases. The only specific example I have found so far was baseless, in that the behavior of Office 2007 was specifically allowed in ECMA-376. (ODF also supports OLE enclosures, by the way.) What needs to be looked at is how ECMA-376 provides for carrying of alternative content that may be useful in roundtripping back to older formats and how it is also easy to create conforming documents that make no reliance on such cases. With regard to the quality of implementations on Apple and the fact that Finder preview support has never been claimed, and other usability matters, I think your experimentation is very valuable, especially with regard to the important ability to round-trip with either one of OOXML or ODF among products that claim to support one or the other. “First of all, I will like to point out that the format of documents produced by Microsoft Office 2007 is not OOXML (Ecma 376). Microsoft Office 2007 documents contains, according to my sources, many elements not specified in Ecma 376, such as binary code, macros, OLE objects, ActiveX, DRM and SharePoint metadata. Even the paper handling does not conform with Ecma 376.”

I think you have to be careful about these statements. Both ODF and OOXML allow for use of binary content and for additional/alternative content in some cases. The only specific example I have found so far was baseless, in that the behavior of Office 2007 was specifically allowed in ECMA-376. (ODF also supports OLE enclosures, by the way.)

What needs to be looked at is how ECMA-376 provides for carrying of alternative content that may be useful in roundtripping back to older formats and how it is also easy to create conforming documents that make no reliance on such cases.

With regard to the quality of implementations on Apple and the fact that Finder preview support has never been claimed, and other usability matters, I think your experimentation is very valuable, especially with regard to the important ability to round-trip with either one of OOXML or ODF among products that claim to support one or the other.

]]> By: The Open Sourcerer » OOXML: Feeling the heat http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6715 The Open Sourcerer » OOXML: Feeling the heat Fri, 15 Feb 2008 12:02:30 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6715 [...] And finally, and rather amusingly, Martin Bekkelund; has done some testing of Microsoft’s claims that OOXML works on several Apple products. Unfortunately it appears as thought they have been somewhat “economical with the truth” [Surely not! Microsoft?]… [...] […] And finally, and rather amusingly, Martin Bekkelund; has done some testing of Microsoft’s claims that OOXML works on several Apple products. Unfortunately it appears as thought they have been somewhat “economical with the truth” [Surely not! Microsoft?]… […]

]]> By: Boycott Novell » Fighting for Its Survival, Microsoft Corrupts with OOXML http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6713 Boycott Novell » Fighting for Its Survival, Microsoft Corrupts with OOXML Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:13:21 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6713 [...] Microsoft is striding all over the place (even spamming YouTube) to give people the illusion that OOXML makes not just a representation of a single product from a single vendor. Actual users are not buying it (neither the argument nor Microsoft’s products) and it shows. First of all, I will like to point out that the format of documents produced by Microsoft Office 2007 is not OOXML (Ecma 376). Microsoft Office 2007 documents contains, according to my sources, many elements not specified in Ecma 376, such as binary code, macros, OLE objects, ActiveX, DRM and SharePoint metadata. [...] […] Microsoft is striding all over the place (even spamming YouTube) to give people the illusion that OOXML makes not just a representation of a single product from a single vendor. Actual users are not buying it (neither the argument nor Microsoft’s products) and it shows. First of all, I will like to point out that the format of documents produced by Microsoft Office 2007 is not OOXML (Ecma 376). Microsoft Office 2007 documents contains, according to my sources, many elements not specified in Ecma 376, such as binary code, macros, OLE objects, ActiveX, DRM and SharePoint metadata. […]

]]> By: Martin http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6712 Martin Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:54:39 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6712 Having trouble with the comment system, Fredrik? ;-) Anyway, we've had this discussion in my Norwegian weblog allready. As I said, at the moment it is not possible to use the so called implementations without having a license for Microsoft Office 2007 or 2008 for Mac. Probably. Having trouble with the comment system, Fredrik? ;-)

Anyway, we’ve had this discussion in my Norwegian weblog allready. As I said, at the moment it is not possible to use the so called implementations without having a license for Microsoft Office 2007 or 2008 for Mac. Probably.

]]> By: Fredrik E. Nilsen http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6711 Fredrik E. Nilsen Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:12:31 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6711 As you are well aware of, NeoOffice states that the support for OOXML is experimental. It's a bit hasty to draw the conclusions based on experimental support IMHO. As you are well aware of, NeoOffice states that the support for OOXML is experimental. It’s a bit hasty to draw the conclusions based on experimental support IMHO.

]]> By: Fredrik E. Nilsen http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6710 Fredrik E. Nilsen Thu, 14 Feb 2008 19:07:40 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6710 Type your comment here. Type your comment here.

]]> By: Martin http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6709 Martin Thu, 14 Feb 2008 16:56:42 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6709 Are there anything in the 1.1.3 changelog that indicates improved OOXML support? I have not checked, but I doubt it. As I say in my conclusion, it might be possible to open documents created with either Microsoft Office 2007 or Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac. However, this is rather irrelevant, as my point is to point out that the allegations of OOXML implementation in NeoOffice, iPhone and iWork '08 are wrong. If I have to own a license for Microsoft Office, the whole idea of vendor independence is useless. Are there anything in the 1.1.3 changelog that indicates improved OOXML support? I have not checked, but I doubt it.

As I say in my conclusion, it might be possible to open documents created with either Microsoft Office 2007 or Microsoft Office 2008 for Mac. However, this is rather irrelevant, as my point is to point out that the allegations of OOXML implementation in NeoOffice, iPhone and iWork ‘08 are wrong. If I have to own a license for Microsoft Office, the whole idea of vendor independence is useless.

]]> By: Alexander Falk http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6706 Alexander Falk Wed, 13 Feb 2008 22:18:14 +0000 http://notebook.bekkelund.net/2008/02/13/ooxml-%e2%80%94-the-apple-headache/#comment-6706 I don't know what version of the software you are running on your iPhone, but since you are in Europe it is a safe bet to say that it is probably not yet 1.1.3, because when I send myself an e-mail with an OOXML attachment, such as a .DOCX file, I can indeed view that attachment on the iPhone without any problems. It works pretty much exactly as depicted in this YouTube video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=oNcAjS7LqKM I don’t know what version of the software you are running on your iPhone, but since you are in Europe it is a safe bet to say that it is probably not yet 1.1.3, because when I send myself an e-mail with an OOXML attachment, such as a .DOCX file, I can indeed view that attachment on the iPhone without any problems.
It works pretty much exactly as depicted in this YouTube video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=oNcAjS7LqKM

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